Pet peeve time

[graculus]

You know, it's perfectly valid (imo) to say 'I don't see that character X and Y have a relationship that could develop into a sexual one' but this whole 'they can't be gay! they don't mince enough!' thing always gets me a tad vexed.

My favourite comment today (and I've removed the fandom because I think it could apply to any slash pairing): "I have a problem with slash in [snip name of fandom]. It's simple, because they don't exhibit any of those attributes on the show and I look for mainly characters in fan fic that resemble the characters on the show."

Attributes? There are gay attributes? And I bet they aren't positive ones, are they? ;)

How does the possibility of being gay or bisexual affect these characters? Does it stop them being brave or cunning or pragmatic or loyal or any other of the thousand things that make them who they are, just because they choose to sleep (or think about sleeping with) someone of the same gender?

Personally I have many more issues with what a m/f 'romance' storyline that pushes a woman to pursue her male boss and wreck his already shaky marriage, or that has a woman still lusting after the unobtainable when she has someone who clearly loves her to bits says about the women characters involved in them (as I would with fic that did the same). And that's *onscreen* in the first two shows I thought of with defined plotlines in that direction.

Comments

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

You also have to make note of who the comment is coming from, Grac. This is a person who asked that a writer send her a version of her story to her and CUT OUT every tiny reference of slash between two of the main characters in the fic.

I think the person you are referring to is more than slightly homophobic, esp with the characters in question.

If this comment is out of line, I will be happy to delete it from your LJ.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I demand to know what the attributes are, damnit! ;)

And no, I don't disagree with you and I'd be damned if I'd have been as accommodating to her prejudice as that writer was.

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

I'd also like to add, after rereading your rant (?) that part of the "reasoning" behind the "they don't show gay behavior and therefore they are not gay/bi" could be a Hero cannot be anything but the traditional Ideal Man -- het, hearty and a hubba hubba who wouldn't think of sticking his manhood into the anus of *anyone*, male or female. In fact, I wonder what the response would be to a post on that ground: would the Heroes *ever* have anal sex? Or is that just too yucky to even contemplate? I wonder what that poster would say.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Gee, and there's me thinking it was all the fault of television. ;)

Of course, there's always a difference between where you'd be prepared to stick your dick and having a dick stuck in you, isn't there? I mean, it would be okay for a butch and manly character to be pitching but rolling over and taking it up the arse is *quite* a different matter altogether!

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

Um. Dildoes? Those work too. A woman's best friend. Or a guys'.

Vanilla, on top or bottom, can have lots of ingredients added to it. I like vanilla, but I like it with chocolate chip cookie dough in it, or fudge, or m&m's or what have you.

However, someone else's defintion of vanilla might be the bland kind you get from the big grocery store, with little flavor to it.

(oye, analogies)

{{it would be okay for a butch and manly character to be pitching but rolling over and taking it up the arse is *quite* a different matter altogether! }}

I don't know about that. Any kind of anal sex could be beyond the pale for certain people. It used to be beyond the pale for *me*; and I can see how it would be for others, also, whether it's the macho guy getting stuck or doing the sticking.

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

if the above post was really stupid,please pardon me.

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

My point was that to some people (male/female) *any* kind of anal sex is anathema, so I'm really not sure what you're disagreeing with there.

You're talking about the attitudes of a portion of men willing to *be filmed* fucking another man - and to me that suggests a self-selecting portion of male-dom.

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

but who says they have to indulge in anal sex?
There's more to do together than that...

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Nope. Apparently slash is all about anal sex and nothing else. Or so I've been told. ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

What am I writing then?

:P

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Perverted Sweeney slash? ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

Ahhahahhahahah YES!

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

Of course there is. But I *think* (and yes, I'm going to generalize here) that's what a lot of anti-slashers object to. ???

And of course there's the misconception that all slash is full of sex-crazed male characters who have no relation whatsoever to the characters the audience sees on the tube.

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

I still haven't quite figured out what the anti-slashers object to. Each time a whole gets poked they go "Oh I meant X not Y..."

Hey it's ok if they don't like it, or maybe they do... Me thinks thou dost protest too much... ;)

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

You get the same dynamic in Sentinel fandom -- TopJim and BottomBlair. It was so notable that Garett, who plays Blair, has said he doesn't mind slash so long as his nieces don't find it, but he wished Blair wasn't always the bottomboy. ;)

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I've heard this report from many fans.

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

An the funny thing is that as far as I see... Jim ain't nowhere NEAR a top... ;)
He's Blair's bitch

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

Oh totally. He so follows Blair around with his nose up Blair's butt. Look at how much Jim depends on him all the time, and how, even though he bitches constantly, he almost always ends up doing what Blair wants.

I ask everyone, who's the *real* bottomboy in this relationship?