graculus

Still no clear word on the attributes, alas! ;)

We're now onto: "So I see the characters SEXUALITY as part of their MAKE-UP in the way the characters ARE PORTRAYED ON THE SHOW."

Followed by a long list of Why Characters X And Y Are Straight Damnit examples and some statements about how nothing could ever convince her that X and Y are anything other than heterosexual (and damnit, she has no intentions of considering the possibility!).

(deleted comment)

From:

I've been a little surprised that we haven't got the usual 'OMG Jack's not gay he's straight, straight I tell you (but I'm not sure about that shirt-lifter Daniel, being so bookish and all...)!!!111!!!!!!!!!' that usually makes an appearance in SG slash discussions. ;)

(deleted comment)

From:

SNAG? Single Nooky Ass Guy?

what does that stand for?

(deleted comment)

From:

There was a very silly song called "Sensitive New Age Guys that was about in the late 80s or early 90s. I'm not sure if SNAG came from that, or was just a result of it.

From:

Didn't someone do a Sentinal Vid to that??? Soooo suits Jim.

From:

xochiquetzl

Of course there are gay attributes! This show isn't about hairdressers, dammit! You can't be gay unless you style hair!

I hate what an m/f storyline usually does to a female character--turning a strong woman into a whiny, simpering, sighing thing that needs Her Man to rescue her at every turn. Feh!

From:

I've always thought if tptb actively wrote any of the main characters as gay, Daniel would have quit the SGC to start up his own interior decorating business, Teal'c would have grown a moustache and joined a biker gang, Jack would have been dressing exclusively in mauve and Sam would have only been allowed out in dungarees.

Alas, those same narrow minded views seem to be circulating round the fandom too...

From:

You also have to make note of who the comment is coming from, Grac. This is a person who asked that a writer send her a version of her story to her and CUT OUT every tiny reference of slash between two of the main characters in the fic.

I think the person you are referring to is more than slightly homophobic, esp with the characters in question.

If this comment is out of line, I will be happy to delete it from your LJ.

From:

I demand to know what the attributes are, damnit! ;)

And no, I don't disagree with you and I'd be damned if I'd have been as accommodating to her prejudice as that writer was.

From:

I'd also like to add, after rereading your rant (?) that part of the "reasoning" behind the "they don't show gay behavior and therefore they are not gay/bi" could be a Hero cannot be anything but the traditional Ideal Man -- het, hearty and a hubba hubba who wouldn't think of sticking his manhood into the anus of *anyone*, male or female. In fact, I wonder what the response would be to a post on that ground: would the Heroes *ever* have anal sex? Or is that just too yucky to even contemplate? I wonder what that poster would say.

From:

Gee, and there's me thinking it was all the fault of television. ;)

Of course, there's always a difference between where you'd be prepared to stick your dick and having a dick stuck in you, isn't there? I mean, it would be okay for a butch and manly character to be pitching but rolling over and taking it up the arse is *quite* a different matter altogether!

From:

Um. Dildoes? Those work too. A woman's best friend. Or a guys'.

Vanilla, on top or bottom, can have lots of ingredients added to it. I like vanilla, but I like it with chocolate chip cookie dough in it, or fudge, or m&m's or what have you.

However, someone else's defintion of vanilla might be the bland kind you get from the big grocery store, with little flavor to it.

(oye, analogies)

{{it would be okay for a butch and manly character to be pitching but rolling over and taking it up the arse is *quite* a different matter altogether! }}

I don't know about that. Any kind of anal sex could be beyond the pale for certain people. It used to be beyond the pale for *me*; and I can see how it would be for others, also, whether it's the macho guy getting stuck or doing the sticking.

From:

if the above post was really stupid,please pardon me.

(deleted comment)

From:

My point was that to some people (male/female) *any* kind of anal sex is anathema, so I'm really not sure what you're disagreeing with there.

You're talking about the attitudes of a portion of men willing to *be filmed* fucking another man - and to me that suggests a self-selecting portion of male-dom.

From:

but who says they have to indulge in anal sex?
There's more to do together than that...

From:

Nope. Apparently slash is all about anal sex and nothing else. Or so I've been told. ;)

From:

What am I writing then?

:P

From:

Perverted Sweeney slash? ;)

From:

Ahhahahhahahah YES!

From:

Of course there is. But I *think* (and yes, I'm going to generalize here) that's what a lot of anti-slashers object to. ???

And of course there's the misconception that all slash is full of sex-crazed male characters who have no relation whatsoever to the characters the audience sees on the tube.

From:

I still haven't quite figured out what the anti-slashers object to. Each time a whole gets poked they go "Oh I meant X not Y..."

Hey it's ok if they don't like it, or maybe they do... Me thinks thou dost protest too much... ;)

(deleted comment)

From:

You get the same dynamic in Sentinel fandom -- TopJim and BottomBlair. It was so notable that Garett, who plays Blair, has said he doesn't mind slash so long as his nieces don't find it, but he wished Blair wasn't always the bottomboy. ;)

(deleted comment)

From:

Yeah. I've heard this report from many fans.

From:

An the funny thing is that as far as I see... Jim ain't nowhere NEAR a top... ;)
He's Blair's bitch

From:

Oh totally. He so follows Blair around with his nose up Blair's butt. Look at how much Jim depends on him all the time, and how, even though he bitches constantly, he almost always ends up doing what Blair wants.

I ask everyone, who's the *real* bottomboy in this relationship?

From:

captain-tiv.livejournal.com

Some have tried the direct method, I've tried the long-winded explanations and comparisons (sort of). I don't think we're getting through.

From:

I still want to know what the attributes are, damn it! :(

From:

me too...

From:

Still no word! :(

From:

BTW, I should say that I successfully used

sidewinder's vid to pimp Curry and Pepper to two people over the weekend, one of them being your friend

phantomas. Mission accomplished! :)

From:

Bwwwahahahhahahaha!!!!!
:)

But how could one turn away Curry Goh and Jiu Jai?!?!?!

From:

crazymadjo.livejournal.com

Conversely, there seem to be so many slash stories (in every fandom) that "feminize" (for lack of a better word) their characters the moment they 'out' themselves in the story. They gush on and on about their feelings, they're super-sensitive, they cry at the drop of a hat, they're INSANELY jealous, they're demure and coy, they're helpless and weak while their partner becomes an overprotective, possesive ape-version of himself. They cease to be recognizable as the characters they are on the show.

When people say they think slash is out of character for a particular character, I wonder if this is the kind of story they have in mind.

From:

Man, I know I hate those. Making any of the boys I like all femmy just because they're gay? No thank you!

I know lots of big beary gay guys who would sooner rip your eyes out than be seen crying in front of somebody. And many of them are bottoms.

From:

Character assassination isn't solely the province of any one genre and I can't recall the last time I saw someone saying that a ship story was out of character for a particular character.

Anyway, you're assuming people have a logical reason for their opinion and not just a bunch of assumptions cobbled loosely together... ;)

From:

crazymadjo.livejournal.com

Character assassination isn't solely the province of any one genre

Nope. Bad writing is bad writing, but we're talking about attributing stereotypically "gay" attributes to characters. IMHO it's done both by a number of slash fans/writers as well as some of those who run screaming from slash. It also happens in some gen fic - thought often with a touch more subteltly.

and I can't recall the last time I saw someone saying that a ship story was out of character for a particular character.

Really? I know plenty of people who avoid ship for just that reason, myself included. I'll refrain from complaining about how the actual writers of a 'certain show' has gotten into the habit of turning one of their strong, female leads into a gooey-eyed girlie-girl for the sake of a shippy story line. ;-)

From:

pinkdormouse.livejournal.com

I dunno, there are some characters that I really can't see as being other than a particular sexuality when I write them (be that straight, bi or gay) even when that opinion goes against common fanon. Then again in my case the gay or bi-ness of a character is defined by positive attributes (snarkiness, fortitude, etc), whereas certain patronising attitudes towards the opposite sex (especially from men) are more likely to convince me that a character is straight.

Gina

From:

You're obviously the antimatter version of this poster - if we stick the two of you together the world will probably come to an end! ;)

From:

pinkdormouse.livejournal.com

Be an interesting experiment though.

I've been contemplating the role that casting has in how we see a character -- I'm sure that putting Johnny Depp in a role originally written for George Cloony played a big part in making my beloved Agent Sands gayer than a very gay thing. Although giving him a canon gf, who was butcher than anyone else in the film (except perhaps El Mariachi) didn't harm that impression at all.

Gina

From: