(no subject)

[graculus]

Don't you just hate it when you're happily reading a slash story and it's interesting, with well-written supporting original characters and a clever premise and then suddenly the protagonists are exchanging rings and getting married/bonded? Or is it just me that objects to grown men (or at least mostly-grown) losing all their semblance of a backbone and turning into blushing wannabe brides?

[Poll #750600]

Comments

[innocent-lex.livejournal.com]

I'd call it very out of character rather than blushing bride behaviour - I'm particularly sensitive to negative comparisons to women at the moment for some reason. It's not that there is an exchange of rings that tends to bother me, but instead it's the way it's done. These things can be done in character and it can work very well (not a single example is springing to mind, of course). But I'm not fond of OOC behaviour of any kind, not just the romantic kind.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Well, it was definitely a toss-up over who got to be 'the girl' as they were all somewhat OOC once the sappiness started creeping in...

[tenaya.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I'd put all the writers up against the wall, but I do automatically hit the delete button. What fandom were you reading this in? Supernatural? *eg*

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Supernatural? Please. :P

No, this was a Harry Potter story, a minor pairing one that started out quite promisingly but I should have known it was all going to go downhill once the writer found an excuse for one of the protagonists to visit a jeweller on business... ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

That
s wht you get for reading HP!

[graculus.livejournal.com]

:P

[nausica2.livejournal.com]

I'm new to reading slash and only do it in one fandom, but when I stumble upon fics where they get married/bonded and then have children or adopt them it makes me want to shake some sense into them.

I also hate the hypocrisy, because you have slashers mocking shippers' babies!fic when they are doing exactly the same thing!

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I have to say the only fic I like is ones where it's more a case of accidentally getting children one way or another, rather than aping the whole picket fence experience. As with most things, though, a good writer can convince me of almost anything...

[xochiquetzl]

Um, yeah. See my comment below.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

There's one particular Snape/Lupin series that makes me want to stab myself in the eyes with a sharpened pencil... ;)

[xochiquetzl]

While in theory I like the idea of fics showing committed relationships (which is probably why I like Established Relationship fics so much), in practice many are poorly done. Especially those with strongly heterosexualized tropes. Gay men do hold commitment ceremonies. They generally do not fight to the death over who gets to wear the dress and veil unless they are being tongue-in-cheek. ;)

The ones that bother me most are the ones that are very heterosexist--the ones that imply that only by imitating a male/female couple can a gay couple achieve happiness and fulfillment. Insert character A weeping because he can't give birth to character B's child here. :P

The thing about being queer to me (pulls out bi cred) is that there's a sense of having to make it all up as you go along. Character A may kind of want that white picket fence, but even if he gets it he's going to be aware that it's not intended for him. A wedding in the US or any other country that doesn't allow gay marriage is also going to have a kind of "Oh, yeah?" to it, rather than be an occasion for unalloyed conformist bliss. Even in countries that allow gay marriage, it's new enough that most of the participants will remember it not being allowed.

I know that many readers dislike including that kind of political reality in fic, but the truth is that most earth-based locations are not a queer utopia. Personally, I'm annoyed by stories that pretend that we DO live in some kind of queer utopia.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Not being a guy, and indeed with most fic writers also not being guys, I remain to be convinced that the first thing that guys think of if they're about to get some hot man-on-man action is buying jewellery for their would-be shagger or shaggee. Because really, is that something that even m/f couples do that much any more, if ever?

It's like we've taken a step back in time and landed in the 1950's, where everyone's supposed to be a virgin till they meet The One and then that's it. To my mind, the line between 'sweet and cute' and 'ragingly camp and overdone' really isn't that thin, but people do seem to leap over it with alarming regularity...

[xochiquetzl]

Yes, it's not only that it's heterosexist. It's that it's heterosexist with retrogressive gender politics.

In theory, I think it's kind of sweet to buy your intended shaggee a nice, no-strings gift. In practice, a wedding or engagement ring is a bit much. ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm annoyed by stories that pretend that we DO live in some kind of queer utopia.

Thank you.

And btw... not _everyone_ is gay!!!!
O.o

The stories where men in an actual age of homophobia come out to everyone and everyone happily wishes them a wonderful life together....

*stabbity*

[graculus.livejournal.com]

My personal favourite has always been the series of sugar shock inducing Magnificent Seven stories where the token black guy in the show and one of the white guys shack up together and it's common knowledge to everyone in town, and then they start adopting random abandoned orphans and it's all kittens and rainbows. Uh huh. That's really accurate for the period in so many ways...

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

*Gags*

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Oh, it gets better! Then there's the story where one of our protagonists is abducted by aliens and gets pregnant, except that then he wakes up and finds it's all been a dream caused by his desperate desire to be a real woman to have babies for his (male) lover. Uh huh. *sporks repeatedly*

[xochiquetzl]

There's a Stargate story where they explain in a sentence or two that Jack and Daniel are married because the President likes Jack and said it was okay for them to get married and for Jack to stay in the Air Force married to a guy.

.................

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Hey, if it's good enough for the shippers... ;)

Of course, what everyone wants to know is this: did they get married on the gate ramp and did Jack wear the dress?

[xochiquetzl]

Of course they got married on the gate ramp! Hammond presided!

Daniel wore a simply fabulous ivory gown with an empire waist and a veil down to his ass. He carried a lovely bouquet of white roses and calla lillies.

Jack wore a white Edwardian bridal gown with a ten foot train, and a crown of daisies.

(She didn't specify any wedding details, and the plot worked without it, so I don't know why it was included. But the rest of the story was equally illogical.)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

(She didn't specify any wedding details, and the plot worked without it, so I don't know why it was included. But the rest of the story was equally illogical.)

Sounds to me like it was about validation - if the President himself says it's okay, then we don't have to worry about little things like homophobia, etc etc...

[nausica2.livejournal.com]

I think I've read the SGA version of that *gag*

I also love good Established Relationship fics, actually, the last SGA fic I've read is kind of a remake of The third man with a Established John/Rodney in the background that was just perfect, because it did feel very real. I like those fics, not the ones where we end up stuck in the gay version of the Stepford wives society. ;)

Gay marriage is a new thing. Heck, I live in a country where it is legal, and obviously our local TV shows are adapting to that. It's quite fascinating to see how it's embedded in local fiction. If it's something tricky when doing fiction set in a country where is legal, creating gay utopias doesn't help the narration, just as you point.

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

For me, it depends on how it's portrayed. I mean, it all depends on the guys in question, right? Even in RL, my uncles won't do that, but their best friends have been "married" for 20 years and I'm not sure if they're going to take advantage of the gay marriage law (while it's still here). And I know another couple who've been married for a year, and I have the sense their marriage was mushy like a bad slash fanfic. ;-)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I think what the author was aiming for was 'sweet' and what (for me) she actually hit was 'horrendously camp and overblown', which is of course bound to be someone's ideal. Just not mine, apparently. ;)

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

And not for people who are, well, connected to RL. :)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Well, like you say, I'm sure there are some people out there for whom this is their experience of RL but how many of them are likely to be reading the fic? ;)

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

Only the Shadow knows?

[khek.livejournal.com]

I only see them when they're so horrible that one of my friends needs to share.

But I feel your pain. Really! :)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Isn't that what fic is about? ;)

[khek.livejournal.com]

LOL

Sharing horrible fics, or feeling your pain?

:p

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Both! :P

[manna]

Depends on the characters, really. In popslash, we have canon footage of Joey Fatone's deliciously OTT million-dollar wedding during which the groom cried while making his hand-written vows. So, yeah. Not such a huge stretch over here. :-)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Well, unless he was marrying another member of the band, I guess all that proves is he gets to be 'the girl'? ;)

[katyabaturinsky.livejournal.com]

That is my bulletproof squick, guaranteed to make me insta!delete the fic in question. Just -- no. (The best is when the characters in question are cops or members of the military, and yet somehow this is just fine and hunky-dory with all their colleagues and TPTB. Shyeah, that's gonna happen.)

Of course, I think weddings are a flaming waste of time and money for everyone -- you're no more committed to the relationship with the official piece of paper than you were without it, and honestly, you could put that money to much better use by investing it to help you pay for the inevitable divorce lawyer -- so really, I'm not the target audience for this type of fic. Obviously.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I think it's all the more annoying when the fic starts off well and then suddenly the emo brainsuck monster takes them all... ;)

[katyabaturinsky.livejournal.com]

I agree -- easier when the whole fic is complete crap, and you can just shrug it off. But to have it go all Mills-and-Boon on you halfway through is really frustrating.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Like I said earlier in the thread, I should have known I was heading into dangerous territory when the protagonists' work took them into contact with a jeweller... ;)

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

I voted "maybe so." *g* I don't object to weddings and I love a good wedding fic now and again--especially if it's my favorite slash couple because I do see them as two people who would want a long-term commitment of some kind or another. But...the blushing bride thing...no. *g* I hate it when any slash story turns one of the characters into a wimp just for the sake of having one feminine character.