(no subject)

[graculus]

Is it just me or are the words 'ass play' appearing in a warning possibly two of the least sexy words you could have? ;)

And let's not even get started on the whole domestic-abuse-disguised-as-dominance thing that seems to be floating someone's boat over in Sentinel fandom. Jeez.

Comments

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

Ass play?

Good grief. It's not just you - that'd send me scurrying for the hills too :(

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I think it's the term rather than the concept, but it still has to be well-written for me not to go flying past in search of the next piece of plot... ;)

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

Yeah - the term is somehow repulsive all by itself, never mind the shades of Domestic Discipline.

[captain-tiv.livejournal.com]

Oh, good grief!
Please tell me you're kidding?
You're not kidding, are you?

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Not kidding about either, unfortunately.

[xochiquetzl]

Yes, bad domestic discipline fic. I hear it's a staple over there. Here, we just have to content ourselves with Space Monkey's execrable "Incarceration." ;)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

It's so obviously contrary to canon as well, since Jim is so clearly Blair's bitch that the idea of a) Jim making Blair do anything he doesn't want to do, and b) Blair doing anything he doesn't want to do, make it all but impossible for me to believe it in the first place.

[xochiquetzl]

Don't be silly! Blair is shorter than Jim. All power is based on height! Blair is the femme, therefore he always catches and Jim wears the pants!

*rolls eyes*

I really hate it when heterosexist paradigms play themselves out in slash. :P

[graculus.livejournal.com]

And he has long hair! Therefore he must be the 'girl' of the pairing! ;)

[xochiquetzl]

Yes! Exactly!

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Does that mean Jim is Simon's bitch? Because Simon is taller than Jim... ;)

[xochiquetzl]

I've seen one whole episode of The Sentinel, I'm afraid. I get all my Sentinel fic info from the ATL-Fen folk, who used to be ATL-Sen.

[innocent-lex.livejournal.com]

Yes, very bad. I can't see that in the characters at all. And there's quite a bit of out-of-character fic in the fandom. Luckily, there's plenty of good stuff, too.

Um, ass play? Dare I ask what that means?

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Playing scrabble with donkeys? ;)

No, it's "erotic stimulation of the anus, with the hand, penis or other body parts or toys".

http://www.aaronsgayinfo.com/Fterms.html

[innocent-lex.livejournal.com]

Okay. Well, I thought it would be, but ever since I heard of golden showers I haven't trusted my assumptions on this particular topic *g*

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Reading slash has definitely broadened my take on human sexuality, I have to say, but some days I feel like all it's done is add things to the list of stuff thats make me go 'huh?'.

[innocent-lex.livejournal.com]

Reading slash has been good for me, definitely. But, yes, that list does get longer, with more of the "wouldn't they feel completely ridiculous doing that?" type of questions coming up. At least these days I know enough to skip certain fics just from the descriptions.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

"Domestic discipline" - *shudders* I ran across quite a few of these back when I was reading Sentinel fic. Consensual BDSM games are one thing - having one partner hit the other and acknowledge that it's abuse is another. But when a grown man lets his partner spank him because he's 'misbehaved'...?

*boggled*

[graculus.livejournal.com]

And it's *always* Jim spanking bad Blair for being a naughty boy. Jeez.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Consensual domination/submission games (with the emphasis on both 'games' and 'consensual' here) have nothing to do with Jim coercing Blair into doing something or other solely for his benefit and basically abusing him because he's smaller/younger/not the Sentinel, which is what I'm talking about.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

No worries - I was talking solely about the "domestic discipline" genre, which I don't think has anything to do with BDSM.

I have a big interest in the BDSM lifestyle, and love well-written fics on the theme, including ones involving extended play in the relationship. Heck, I've even written one in which non-con play is something that a couple indulges in. However, in fics like these, there's an agreement that takes place beforehand and, realistically, the sub has just as much (if not more) power than the dom. Like I said above, BDSM is one thing (and a grand thing between consenting adults) but the Sentinel fics I was referring to weren't BDSM, but thinly-veiled abuse in which a grown man has submission forced upon him by someone who 'knows best,' rather than freely offering it up himself. Maybe this situation works in other fandoms, but in The Sentinel, the character is one who requires a little recognition, independence, and respect - even (or especially) if he chose to become the sub in a D/S relationship.

Just my two cents :-)

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

*nods* I really wish I could dig up some of these old stories to show you what we were talking about. I can understand the concept of discipline being part of a D/S relationship, but the way it was portrayed here...it was more like a parent over-disciplining an unruly child. There was no sense of the sub actually having any control in the relationship. It was more eerily reminiscent of abusive situations where the abused party slowly loses all confidence in themselves. In the ones I read, 'Blair' bore no resemblance to the character on the show anymore - and it definitely wasn't a healthy relationship.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid we're going to have to beg to differ on this subject, since I could only see DD as a legitimate part of BDSM *if* it worked both ways, rather than character A always being the one disciplining character B for his mistakes or 'bad' behaviour and no accountability for character A if the shoe is on the other foot.

I find the whole concept of physical violence between partners to be abhorrent, unless it's part of a mutually-agreed and consensual 'game' scenario which benefits both partners.

[katyabaturinsky.livejournal.com]

TS fic is just...heartbreaking most of the time these days. The odd gem will pop up now and again, but that's increasingly rare. Sadly. (She says, looking at her TS opus-in-progress, which may fall into the "dreck" rather than "jewel" pile.)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

The halcyon days are well and truly gone, alas. :(

[mer1973.livejournal.com]

She says, looking at her TS opus-in-progress
Tease!

[katyabaturinsky.livejournal.com]

Oh, it is a looooong way away from being ready for prime time, my friend. No joke.

[mer1973.livejournal.com]

whole domestic-abuse-disguised-as-dominance thing that seems to be floating someone's boat over in Sentinel fandom.
Ever just want to scream at a writer "GET HELP!" and you weren't talking about how bad their writing was?

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

Assplay: brings to mind a vision of two asses (human rearends) bumping and checking each other, etc etc. in anthropomorphic fashion. Yikes.

No comments on the domestic abuse fics, esp in TS fandom, since TS isn't really my fandom, and DA doesn't seem like so much fun, esp if it's couched in true abusive terms. I don't come across it much anyhow.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Or donkeys playing Scrabble. ;)

Unfortunately, this shit seems to creep in everywhere. By sheer mischance I came across a J/D fic which had Jack punishing Daniel for being 'thoughtless' about something or other and the idea of someone watching the show and thinking that a) Jack would behave that way towards anyone, and b) Daniel would put up with it for a second, just gives me chills.

It's so way out there in comparison to *anything* you could extrapolate from the show, imo...

[gategrrl.livejournal.com]

See, this is where I could agree with fra; if that fic *showed* (showed being the operative word) that it was *agreed* between the two that Daniel would get "disciplined" like that, then it would be more of Dom/sub scene game.

But it doesn't *sound* like that was the intent. I'd have to read the fic to be sure, but if the writer *intended* to take Daniel down a peg with humilation at Jack's hand...that's a different kettle of fish, and I don't see it as being a game -- that's abuse.