Fandom meanderings

[graculus]

I'm not sure where this whole 'fandom is a community and so we all ought to be nice to one another' thing comes from - it's certainly so far removed from my experience of human beings that it boggles my mind a bit. Certainly there are wonderful people out there, with whom I'd gladly claim commonality, but there are also people who I consider to be quite frankly a waste of skin. Perhaps they're not the people they represent themselves as online - I hope not, for the sake of their friends and acquaintances out there in the offline world - but only they know whether what they do behind the mask of internet semi-anonymity represents who they really are.

Anyway, getting back to what spawned this rambling... reviews and the making of them. I'm afraid I lean heavily towards the 'get the hell over yourself' line of thinking when it comes to the trembling flowers of internet authordom. If someone saying they didn't like what you wrote, or that the characters were wildly OOC, is enough to make you throw away your keyboard then good luck to you in some other endeavour.

Welcome to real life, dearie, and fandom as a subset of that - it's full of people who are likely to think you're stupid and/or deluded and/or deranged anyway because of what you think. And some of them might even tell you so, given the opportunity, in much less kind ways than a passing review on something you freely admit to having knocked out in 20 minutes and posted immediately.

It's quite possible you toiled over that particular story, burning the midnight oil before you shared the creation of your god-like literary genius with us, only to be scorned by cruel unappreciative people! OMGWTFBBQ! *cough* It wouldn't matter what you write, because someone out there is going to love it regardless and a bunch of us will be thinking 'someone take this person's keyboard away from them' even if we don't say so out loud. That's how it goes - the spectrum of responses to anything.

If your ego is too fragile to cope with the possibility that one single person out there might be saying what you consider to be mean things about what you've produced, there's an easy way of preventing that - don't put it online. Seriously, share it with your friends, so they can tell you it's the greatest thing ever and stroke your ego all you like. Us, we're not your friends. We're your potential readership and we don't have to like it. That doesn't make us right and you wrong (or vice versa), it just makes us different people. That's how mankind works, folks, like it or not.

Comments

[lexin.livejournal.com]

Word.

[moss6886.livejournal.com]

What she said.

[lexin.livejournal.com]

Exactly...I wrote something along the same lines as graculus's post here (http://community.livejournal.com/lotrfic_crit/15191.html). And some of my reviews on lotrfic_crit make oulangi's look like unrestrained praise.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

So, you get to wear the OMG so meeeennn!!!11!!! badge with pride? ;)

[lexin.livejournal.com]

'Fraid so. (Heh, heh, heh.) You should see some of the comments garnered when I all-but called someone's well-loved story badfic.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

*ponders* I do agree, mostly. I've gotten a ton of flames on a regular basis over the years and it's made me pretty immune to poorly-intentioned criticism, and as someone who wants to keep improving as a writer, good concrit is always welcomed by me. Posting online opens you up to criticism along with praise, and it's silly to expect the latter without the former.

At the same time, however, I view fandom as a casual thing, a hobby, a gathering of amateurs. I don't think it's worth getting worked up about on either side, and while I'm all for people posting in generalities about things they don't like in fandom, when it comes to individual stories, unless specifically asked for my opinion by the author or speaking in private with someone else who's read the story, I stick to a policy of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." I tend to deliver serious concrit by private email to an author, and I find "anti-recs" tremendously gauche.

I mean, fandom's supposed to be fun, right?

[ninasis.livejournal.com]

I find "anti-recs" tremendously gauche.

I'm the complete opposite. I love detailed reviews, both good and bad. I don't care at all about concrit - as has been mentioned already, concrit is for the author and reviews are for the reader. I'm not sure why bad reviews are called anti-recs all of a sudden, but I find them invaluable and appreciate them tremendously. I may not agree with all of them, (just as I often think Roger Ebert has his head up his ass yet watch his show every week) but I still read them eagerly.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Hm...for me, I think it's because I can tell very quickly on my own if I'm not going to like a fic (usually within a few pages if not paragraphs,) whereas recommendations are appreciated because they point me to stories I may not have otherwise found. I certainly don't mind if reviews contain some criticism, because no story is perfect, but I'm a little puzzled why someone would bother to write up reviews for a story they think has no redeeming value (hence, an anti-rec because they are recommending against reading it,) and I'm kind of disturbed by the mean-spiritedness behind, say, setting up whole communities dedicated only to sporking the stories of amateur writers.

[manna]

recommendations are appreciated because they point me to stories I may not have otherwise found.

The same applies to bad reviews, though. I go to see films which get really quite bad reviews in The Guardian, because I know that I have radically different taste to the guy who writes the reviews and I can tell pretty accurately from his write up whether I'll like a film even if he hates it. Conversely, I can be pretty confident that if he's raving about something, I'll be desperately bored by it.

Fanfic is the same. Someone's perfect story could me someone else's ridiculously OTT melodrama; some people have bulletproof kinks they'll read and love, no matter how many typos a story has; and some people just get a kick out of really bad stories. So even bad reviews can be a source of geniunely appreciative new readers.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. I just personally find it mean-spirited.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Posting online opens you up to criticism along with praise, and it's silly to expect the latter without the former.

Sadly there seem to be a bunch of folks out there who think that anything that isn't 100% gushing praise = 'OMG so meeeennn!!!11!!!' *sigh*

while I'm all for people posting in generalities about things they don't like in fandom, when it comes to individual stories, unless specifically asked for my opinion by the author or speaking in private with someone else who's read the story, I stick to a policy of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

I tend not to talk specifics about stories I dislike or which vex me for some reason, usually because it's tempting fate and the wrath of that writers' friends/minions who'll think I'm being OMG so meeeennn!!!11!!! But that's my personal choice, as it's yours to take the stand you take, and someone else's personal choice to post reviews. C'est la vie.

Not that I'm condoning flaming - there's a definite difference between 'the characterisation in your story is all over the place' and 'you suck, I hope you die slowly and painfully'. Again, a distinction that some people seem to struggle to accept/understand...

I mean, fandom's supposed to be fun, right?

Sure. And some of us find reading/writing snarktastic comments about stuff amusing and others don't. But unless the snarkers are emailing the writers, or posting stuff to their journal so they can't miss it, then what's wrong with people in one corner saying what the heck they like (as long as they're not slapping the people who don't like it in the face with their opinions)?

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

But unless the snarkers are emailing the writers, or posting stuff to their journal so they can't miss it, then what's wrong with people in one corner saying what the heck they like (as long as they're not slapping the people who don't like it in the face with their opinions)?

There's nothing wrong with a little snarking (and I totally agree that some people are way too sensitive about criticism and way too entitled about praise) - but I just find it disgustingly...smug when people post their snarking with links to the story or author's page, because it strikes me as a "building yourself up by tearing someone else down" thing, with the OP making themselves look superior to their readers by pointing out someone else's inferiorities.

As I wrote above, I can tell pretty quickly on my own if I'm not going to like a story. I value recommendations, even/especially ones qualified with a little criticisim, because they get me to try something I wouldn't have otherwise, and because good writing should definitely be promoted.

But...again, it's just a hobby. Fanwriters, good or bad, aren't getting paid for this. So why does it matter that some of it isn't so good - especially when it's really not that hard to avoid? I think more is accomplished to increase the amount of good fic out there by recommending and giving encouragement to authors whose stories you've enjoyed, sending con-crit to authors with flawed stories but promise, and just plain ignoring the bad stuff rather than by tittering behind one's hand at someone else. It's just...mean. And, let other people do as they want as it's a free Internet, but I personally don't want to involve myself with it.

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

So why does it matter that some of it isn't so good - especially when it's really not that hard to avoid?

It matters that its easy for me to find so I don't waste any of my life on it. I don't find bad reviews to be "tittering behind my hand" at anything. Its simply a review where the reviewer sees more negatives than positives.

I sometimes troll bad reviews to look for things to read. Especially where stories are "not romantic enough" or "too realistic." That might be more my speed than the Mills & Boon drivel I'd usually be faced with.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Fair enough - we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. That particular sort of fan activity just really isn't my thing.

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

No problem.

[obelix]

Awwww! You're so mean ;-)

But then so am I ;-)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

We're all apparently amateurs compared to the meanness that is lexin though, so there's still room for improvement! :P

[obelix]

Guess I'm going to have to practice, shouldn't be too hard. I'll take Numb3rs, it's easy pickings ;-)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Shooting incestuous fish in a barrel, where's the challenge? ;)

[obelix]

One must start somewhere and when ones aim is perfected, one can tackle more elusive prey ;-)

[sazandra.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure where this whole 'fandom is a community and so we all ought to be nice to one another' thing comes from - it's certainly so far removed from my experience of human beings that it boggles my mind a bit.

I don't know where it comes from either, it's cloud cuckooland stuff! Some people don't get on with each other in real life, some people don't get on with each other online. Such is life.

And there are people out there who can't take even a tiny piece of criticism, take an innocent comment the wrong way, can't take a joke or whatever then get so offended when somebody says something. They're probably the same ones who take offence so easily in real life. Ditto the ones who always seem to be spoiling for a fight.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I'm quite fond of the Geek Social Fallacies (http://sean.chittenden.org/humor/www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html) as a way to start explaining how people get along (or not) in fandom...

[nausica2.livejournal.com]

That was a neat link, thank you.

As I see it, fandom is like any other group where human interact, from offices to high politics. The same behaviours happen all the time.

Still, this a lesson one has to learn the hard way: the fact that two people like the same TV show doesn't make them friends forever.

That extends to fanfiction, I guess. There are people who take their writing seriously, and others who really don't. But puting something online for everybody to see opens the door to criticism. I normally don't point fingers and don't like hurting people but there are cases that can be quite... extreme. ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

ZOMG so TRUE!

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

so tired of the "meen" thing. so very tired.

I'm growing into the opinion that I don't care how good you are or how much I love your stuff, if you turn into one of these "you must all be nice to me or I'll never write again!!!!111" people I will gleefully wave goodbye.