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[graculus]

Back at work since Tuesday, hence the relative quiet here in comparison to the past couple of weeks...

Woken by the postie this morning at 7am (bloody typical that this should happen on a non-work day!) with yet another copy of The Amulet of Samarkand for me. Regular readers of this journal will recall that I bought a copy which fell apart because of bad binding and I'd complained to the company. In this case, I'd complained by email and then when I got no response, I'd written a stroppy letter to them as well. I already received one replacement copy before Christmas, but neither have had the promised return postage so I could send the faulty one back - apparently the left hand at Random House does not know what the right hand is doing. ;)

So, the faulty one will shortly be going back to Amazon for a refund, since Random House don't seem to want it, and if anyone on my friends list wants my spare copy, please let me know!

Meanwhile, in other news, I may be opening up a can of worms by opining in this way but it's been on my mind most of the week. Namely, the poor quality of the submissions in the muncle Secret Santa thing (in my opinion, naturally, which may not be shared by anyone else reading this) as opposed to the submissions in the equivalents organised on lupin_snape and merry_smutmas.

Even taking into account Sturgeon's Law and the respective size of the fandoms, I was disappointed by the majority of the entries, with characterisation (again, for me) being a major sore point. I can only hope that the promised dvd issues this year will increase the number of people who've actually seen episodes of the show before they put pen to paper or pixels to screen, as the case may be, because frankly how Napoleon and Illya are being asked to behave in the vast majority of recent fic needs some closer reference to canon.

Comments

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

I was very interested by your post and view of the muncle DTC2. With respect I don't agree with you, but I did find it interesting.

The thing is apart from physical characteristics, characterisation is very open to interpretation by each person watching the show.

We will all see the same scene, hear the same exchange, etc. etc. and interpret it in different ways. And IMHO none of these are 'right' and none are 'wrong', or rather they are all 'right', because that is how each individual person sees them.

There will be as many differing opinions are there are writers, and for me the important thing isn't whether it's 'my' characters, but that the writer convinces me of their interpretation. But even if they don't, I don't think they are 'wrong', they are clearly just seeing something different from what I see.

I personally could say the same as you are saying, that some of the characterisation bears little or no resemblance to what I see on the screen, but I strongly suspect that we'd be talking about totally different stories, because I would think that you and I see them in somewhat different ways.

As long as a writer can defend her/his view, can point to 'evidence' on the screen and is comfortable writing the characters that way, then for me there isn't a problem. I might not like the characters, and I don't like some, like you I want to say 'huh, have you actually watched any eps?', but I don't actually mean that, I'm being ironic . I know they've seen eps, several times, they are just seeing them and thus interpreting them in different ways.

I personally thought there were some excellent stories this year, as there were last, but I would venture to guess that the ones I really liked, fall under your 'poor characterisation'.

Different people like different things. That for me is the great beauty of fanfic and fandom - there is something for everyone.

Just my twopenn'rth

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I chose to cite characterisation as a major flaw in the majority of the stories because I wasn't convinced by the way that Napoleon and Illya were portrayed. Because I'm not convinced that many of the people writing this year had actually ever seen an episode, since the characterisation was so wildly different from each other. I'm afraid I have no sympathy for people writing fic if they don't know the show and most of the authors this year didn't convince me (or others reading, I'm just the one with the big mouth).

The classic example is what someone I know calls My Little Pony Illya, all golden shiny hair and tears on command. That is so far removed from the guy who likes blowing stuff up that we see in the show that any story with him behaving that way which doesn't start with IK being lobotomised is going to stand a chance of convincing. The 'IK is secretly a Russian prince' thing is such a cliche and the only thing that can redeem a cliche is good writing - that certainly wasn't the case.

Also, in a number of cases, the overall quality of the stories was poor. The writing was simplistic and juvenile. The pacing of some stories was bad, leading me to lose interest quite quickly because, along with the egregious characterisation, I just didn't care. At times it seemed that little thought had been put into why the characters would behave that way in the universe which they inhabit - the kind of story where Napoleon would be lucky to wake up and find his genitals still attached if he treated Illya that way, stretched out to 4 agonising parts.

I agree that fanfic gives us something for everyone, but what about those of us who actually like the characters in the fic to have some similarity other than their names to the characters in the show? We seem to be getting the short end of the stick here and I for one am fed up with it.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I have no sympathy for people writing fic if they don't know the show

No, I don't either, actually.

but what about those of us who actually like the characters in the fic to have some similarity other than their names to the characters in the show? We seem to be getting the short end of the stick here and I for one am fed up with it.

But it's what I was saying. You have one view of the characters, and other people, maybe the majority who took part in this exchange, have other views. But both 'sides' will say that their versions are what they see on the show. And both 'sides' will also be fed up of not getting more of 'their' interpretation.

I think most readers want the characters to resemble the ones they see on screen. But as they'll see them differently due to the way we all view, what one person thinks is in-character, another will think is out-of-character and bemoan the fact that not more people are writing 'in character'.

I personally bemoan the fact that there aren't more stories that feature the characters in the way I interpret them.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Thanks for agreeing with me on the overall quality of writing and composition, though - it's nice to see we can agree on something! ;)

Meanwhile I don't know that the people writing My Little Pony Illya do base their interpretation of the character on what they see on-screen because there's no evidence they've actually seen the show. I get the feeling that the names of Napoleon and Illya, and the rough idea that the two of them are spies, are just convenient hooks to hang their particular story ideas on. Because I really don't see where there's canon evidence, even if I really squint, for much of what's going on.

Meanwhile I know of people writing in this fandom who've revelled in the fact their characters are OOC and would say that they prefer them that way. That I don't understand - if you actually like a show and the characters in it, what's the incentive to then go off on such a wild tangent with them? You will probably say 'oh, they don't see it that way' but frankly I'm not so convinced many of the people writing MLP!Illya give a damn about the show, and that vexes me.

Fortunately there are still other people writing recognisable characters out there, because heaven knows the fandom won't survive on poorly-written, poorly-characterised pap like some of this. I can only hope that the dvds come soon too, because god knows we need an injection of people who can actually string a complex thought together in coherent prose and there's no other way we're going to get them in this fandom...

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling that the names of Napoleon and Illya, and the rough idea that the two of them are spies, are just convenient hooks to hang their particular story ideas on. Because I really don't see where there's canon evidence, even if I really squint, for much of what's going on.

So with you on this one. I'm mystefied at the characterisations I see. NS doesn't seem to get too much stick, although I generally find him 3 steps removed from the man I see on the screen. I'm not sure where this swaggering, hairy chested, macho Napoleon comes from but I supposed you could see it if you squinted. But Illya... Why do people turn him into a snivelling, pathetic, creature with no confidence, effeminate habits and waiflike thinness? This proves to me they've never seen the show, or don't care about canon.

Yes there is room for interpretation but the interpretation should be based on canon facts. Please show me where IK snivels and cries aside from the one time where is gassed. Please show me examples of the no confidence in his skills... I've only seen the opposite. Please explain the waif like thinness. He was slim in season 1 but not waiflike. The rest of the time he was a deliciously sturdy young man. Please show me the whinging, submissive Illya who is terrified of his own shadow and cries at the drop of a hat. You can't show him, because he doesn't exist.

but frankly I'm not so convinced many of the people writing MLP!Illya give a damn about the show, and that vexes me.
I know. I love the show in all its quirky camp and tongue in cheekness. Its a fun universe and it saddens me that so many people want to turn it into Len Deighton, or Love Story. If that's what you want, please go do it. Just don't call it Man From Uncle, because you know what? It isn't.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

Thanks for agreeing with me on the overall quality of writing and composition, though - it's nice to see we can agree on something!

Er, well, I wasn't really :-) I was agreeing generally that I tend to get very irritated by people in fandom generally who write, or I should say share their writing, when they haven't even seen a single episode of the show about which they are writing. Sadly, it's happening all too often. Not too long ago, someone made an announcement on a Comm (in a different fandom) about how cool it was that she'd finally be able to see the series she'd been writing about for over a year!

Because I really don't see where there's canon evidence, even if I really squint, for much of what's going on.

Now I can agree with this. Despite my saying about different interpretations, I'm not convinced by every one I read, and I too can't see what they see.

You will probably say 'oh, they don't see it that way' but frankly I'm not so convinced many of the people writing MLP!Illya give a damn about the show, and that vexes me.

Some of do, I know that for a fact. Maybe others don't. Maybe I am giving some people too much credit for their interpretive skills.

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

Some of do, I know that for a fact.

Then why do they insist on writing something which is obviously not there?

I think you are being to nice to them as usual ;)