(no subject)

[graculus]

Somehow, in addition to the panel on 'Fictive Disasters' that I've been press-ganged into co-modding with cycnus39 at the upcoming Connotations slash convention the weekend after next, I seem to have also volunteered myself for another one.

So any comments on the subject at hand ('In a league of their own: riding counter to the new shiny show, pairing, trend...') would be very much appreciated as at the moment my thoughts are somewhat limited... particularly any comments from atdelphi, fellow queen of the underdog pairing! :P

I've never been someone who likes very much being told what to think - heaven knows this has got me into trouble more than once - so the chances of me jumping happily onto the latest shiny fannish bandwagon are close to zero. However, I can usually summon up a reason why I haven't that doesn't just boil down to 'awkward obstreperous cowbag'. Usually.

Let's take Firefly as a prime example. There are people on my lj friendslist who love the show in question, who would crawl over broken glass to get a ticket for the new movie and think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Me, I wasn't all that enamoured of sliced bread either! :P The more I'm told something is wonderful, the less I believe it, I think. I have to see it for myself, I can't follow and be swept along in the fannish wake of something. Now sometimes this means I might miss out, sometimes it means I might get into something relatively late in the day, but more often than not it just means I actually get to act like a human being and not a sheep. ;)

I'm a great believer in IDIC and I just don't see it being exercised in fandom as much as it ought to be. Fandom is too full of OTP-ness, where variety of any kind is frowned upon because everyone should conform - the pairing is the pairing is the fandom. Pffft. Now there are a couple of shows I write for (UNCLE and WWW, in case people were wondering) where I just can't see any other pairing than the one I write but that doesn't mean if people want to write other pairings they shouldn't. It just means I'd like them well-labelled so I don't stumble across them by accident, thankee kindly. But people don't, on the whole, do they?

Makes me wonder what drives people to write particular pairings - sometimes it's the pretty, sometimes it's the obvious. I can't imagine writing a canon-sanctioned pairing (unless you count the aforementioned UNCLE and WWW and then it depends on who you're talking to...) and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, so why aren't there more people who don't write the fandom-sanctioned OTP? Particularly when (as with SG, for example) the show seems determined to mess with your pairing of choice?

I've always had a tendency to fall for a particular character in a show and then I can quite happily write about them with someone else (if that person just has chemistry with them) without needing fannish permission to do so. In fact, even in the face of outright embargo (yes, Mag7 fandom awards people, I'm looking at you!) I can't help wanting to write about the pairings nobody else seems interested in, as well as the somewhat more accepted ones. As long as Ezra is in there, it's mostly all good. I guess I must just be wired up that way...

Comments

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

Seeeeeeee I so want to come to Connotations!!!!!

damn

Well as a proponet of the non-popular... Sadly I don't do it on purpose. It just is. I like who I like and feel a connection to who I feel the connection to. It just isn't generally who everyone else likes. And unlike many, I can't just write anything about anyone. I must see them... I have to hear their words to one another. The milieu of the show must appeal.

Of course, I'm a media fan, not a fic fan. I don't travel from fandom to fandom. I love my boys and stick with them.

and honestly. I don't give a shit what other peole are doing. They can have fun their way, but I'm having my fun, my way.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I think the difference is whether people are a fan of fandom or a fan of a particular show. There are shows that have no interest for me and characters I could care less about - so why should I want to read about them, regardless of who's writing in that fandom now?

Likewise, I can't predict what will take my fancy and I can like a show without getting into the fandom. There are a number of shows currently airing that I watch but none of them have dragged me into their respective fandoms and other fandoms I'm reading in I have no interest in writing for. Regardless of how pretty some of the protagonists might be... My problem (well, one of them...) is that I take a lot of convincing and if people whose judgement and taste in fic I trust can't manage to lead me astray, who can? ;)

The characters have to 'click' for me, or else I have no interest in them, maybe not even in what they're getting up to onscreen and probably not beyond that. I'm not sure how much of it is a mix between contrary and deliberate choice.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

I'm a great believer in IDIC and I just don't see it being exercised in fandom as much as it ought to be.

Ah, yes. I do so agree with this point!

Now there are a couple of shows I write for (UNCLE and WWW, in case people were wondering) where I just can't see any other pairing than the one I write but that doesn't mean if people want to write other pairings they shouldn't. It just means I'd like them well-labelled so I don't stumble across them by accident, thankee kindly. But people don't, on the whole, do they?

::Nods head in agreement:: Again I agree with what you say here. Like you, I don't have any problems with folk writing what they want, even if they separate 'my' pairing and put one of them with someone else. But yes, I want it duly labelled - I happen to think it's common courtesy. Just like in more than one show there are more than one pairing where the name/initial is the same, and whilst one of the pairings might not be as popular as the other, it still is a pairing and such when stating a pairing, I think that the writer should not be ambiguous.

Take Due South. Whatever Ray one sways, there are two of them. When folk just label stories Fraser/Ray, it strikes me as being more than a little uncourteous - and I mean that whether it's a Vecchio or a Kowalski fan.

The same applies in my monitory pairing of Gibbs/Ducky. Several people, when posting, put G/D (meaning Gibbs/DiNozzo - the main pair). Again, to me that's 'wrong'. I'd never dream of labelling my stuff G/D, nor would I label my DS stuff Fraser/Ray.

Makes me wonder what drives people to write particular pairings - sometimes it's the pretty, sometimes it's the obvious.

I often wonder about this question - and I think you sum it up very well. I've certainly heard the 'oooh, but they are so hot together'.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I've certainly heard the 'oooh, but they are so hot together'.

And obviously there are many people for whom that is quite enough, but I'm not one of them. For me, there has to be something more in terms of chemistry between my couple of choice or else I'm not going to be interested enough to follow it through - that goes for both reading and writing.

Pretty isn't enough for me. I guess I'm just not wired that way. I can see the aesthetic appeal of two hot guys as much as the next slasher but it's never been about that for me, so I see the pretty as a bonus, if I can get it, since usually the characters I like aren't the stereotypical hot guys (depending on what you consider to be 'hot' of course).

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

And obviously there are many people for whom that is quite enough, but I'm not one of them.

Nor am I.

For me, there has to be something more in terms of chemistry between my couple of choice or else I'm not going to be interested enough to follow it through - that goes for both reading and writing.

Again I agree entirely with this.

Pretty isn't enough for me. I guess I'm just not wired that way. I can see the aesthetic appeal of two hot guys as much as the next slasher but it's never been about that for me, so I see the pretty as a bonus, if I can get it, since usually the characters I like aren't the stereotypical hot guys (depending on what you consider to be 'hot' of course).

And yet again, I have to agree. I too am not wired just for 'prettiness', there are so many other factors that make me find a couple attractive, and that isn't in the physical way. And as you say one person's idea of 'hot' is another's idea of 'luke warm at best'.

I know that some people simply have to find a pair to slash in order to be able to enjoy, even just to watch, a series. I would venture a guess that these are people who are more likely to go for the 'aren't they hot together' reason. It's another view I don't get. I can watch and enjoy any number of shows without the need to slash anyone. For me it's either there for me see, or it's not. I can't be 'talked into it'.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I know that some people simply have to find a pair to slash in order to be able to enjoy, even just to watch, a series. I would venture a guess that these are people who are more likely to go for the 'aren't they hot together' reason. It's another view I don't get. I can watch and enjoy any number of shows without the need to slash anyone. For me it's either there for me see, or it's not. I can't be 'talked into it'.

Yep. I watch any number of shows without thinking 'who are the pairing here?' and wonder whether this is something that's come in from the ship side of the house, this idea that the 'ship comes before the show. I don't get it.

And it goes into all sorts of odd contortions as well. For example, there's a US show called Numb3rs which I enjoy very much and which will be airing in the UK next month - the main characters are an FBI agent and his younger brother, who is a maths professor. I was surprised to see that there's a load of slash for that show, considering that incest is a big squick for a lot of people for not uncompelling reasons (myself included) and wondered just how much of that was down to the two-hot-guys approach. For my part, the only m/m chemistry I see is between the professor and his mentor, in a very geeky and cerebral kind of way, and there is some fic for that pairing but nothing like as much.

For me, a slash pairing that sparks is the cherry on the cake, not the cake itself. I like shows where I have no interest in slashing anyone (or writing anything at all, in fact), while others I like to read a variety of fic (usually based on one character and different permutations of what they get up to) but it's not a necessity for me.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know Numb3rs and have seen all but the last two eps (which I have to watch) and have one friend who is heavily into it. I wasn't surprised to see slash, as soon as I'd seen the first few minutes I said to myself 'people will slash Don/Charlie'. Part of that was the 'some people will slash anyone', but part of it was also because I could see a connection between them. I have no interest in pursuing it, other than talking to my friend about it if she wants to, but something clicked on one of my slash levels.

The friend of mine who's heavily into it is most certainly not a 'oooh, they look so hot together', girl, she too doesn't understand people who slash because of that, and she doesn't go looking for slash, so clearly she genuinely sees it.

I see a different kind of connection with Larry and Charlie, just really another father figure, so slash in that pairing surprises me - well, having said that it doesn't surprise/surprise, but I don't see it. But each to their own.

[mer1973.livejournal.com]

I have to agree, IDIC is not followed much in fandom. I might not get another person's idea, and I might grumble about them to myself, but I do try get over myself when other's ideas disagree.

I totally don't get people who try to foist fandoms on others. katyabaturinsky and blktauna had a bad experience with a Firefly pimper when it first came. They didn't love the show from the first instance, and this highly agressive pimper playing the eps over and over again in a con-suite made them loathe it. That loathing is why I won't aggressively pimp a show. I might squee, but I won't pimp.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I have to agree, IDIC is not followed much in fandom. I might not get another person's idea, and I might grumble about them to myself, but I do try get over myself when other's ideas disagree.

My only bugbear is labelling - I want to be able to avoid stuff I don't like. Other than that, if people want to write Napoleon/Waverly bdsm fic, have at it, I say! As long as they remember Napoleon is a squealing great bottom, that is... ;)

And I was at the same convention and now have the same reaction to Firefly - that kind of pimping works really well, as aversion therapy! :P

[mer1973.livejournal.com]

if people want to write Napoleon/Waverly bdsm fic, have at it, I say! As long as they remember Napoleon is a squealing great bottom, that is... ;)
0-0 Thank you for sharing that image. I must now go scrub my brain out, cause ew. Labels and/or descriptions of the story are good. The writer might consider it horrid to spoil the ending of the story, but I consider it important to know if one of the pairing is going to die.

And I was at the same convention and now have the same reaction to Firefly
You were there too? Jesus, how many people did this woman destroy this show for? And who stopped you from beating her to death with her tapes? Not a one of you is the type to suffer silently.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

0-0 Thank you for sharing that image. I must now go scrub my brain out, cause ew.

Just living up to my reputation. *points to icon* ;)

Labels and/or descriptions of the story are good. The writer might consider it horrid to spoil the ending of the story, but I consider it important to know if one of the pairing is going to die.

Yep, character death is one of the things I need to know about beforehand, thanks very much. I can cope with just about anything else but not that.

You were there too? Jesus, how many people did this woman destroy this show for? And who stopped you from beating her to death with her tapes? Not a one of you is the type to suffer silently.

See, we obviously all do have many more social graces than you're giving us credit for. IIRC, someone did approach the person running the con suite and ask if they could possibly play something else and the response wasn't good. So we just kept out of there, mostly. And thus a loathing of said show was born. ;)

So, to get back to the topic at hand - what do you think it is that makes people just go with the fannish flow? And why are some of us equally determined that we *can* swim upstream, damnit?

[penfold-x.livejournal.com]

riding counter to the new shiny show, pairing, trend..

One would think that, as fans, this shouldn't be terribly difficult for us: fandom itself still, for the most part, requires riding contrary to whatever dominant pop culture tells you you should watch/like/do.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

One would think that, as fans, this shouldn't be terribly difficult for us: fandom itself still, for the most part, requires riding contrary to whatever dominant pop culture tells you you should watch/like/do.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? And even more so where slash fans are concerned because we're already bucking the system, so to speak. Perhaps there's just a human tendency for water to find its own level?

I like what I like because I like it. I can only assume it's nature, not nurture. ;)