(no subject)

[graculus]

And meanwhile, I'm throwing myself to the lions... ;)

There's a discussion on one of the mailing lists I belong to about why zine sales seem to be dropping at conventions. There's speculation that perhaps 'young people today' just don't have the same bookworm tendencies and therefore don't buy books and so the not-buying-zines behaviour is just part of the same pattern. I'm not convinced.

I probably shouldn't have, but here's my post - I'd be interested in comments from the people reading this about the subject as a whole:

I think that the situation with zine sales is the result of a number of factors coming together.

First off, I wonder just how many of the people who attend conventions are the same people as previous years? How many new people do even the big cons like MW get, in terms of people who are 'con virgins'? Zines are luxury items, convention attendance even more so, particularly if you're talking about the US where paid leave seems to be at a premium. If conventions themselves aren't being 'sold' to fans then how are they going to survive as the people running them get older and/or less interested in giving up their time to organise them?

Part of the problem with zines is that (like it or not) some of the people producing zines have, to some extent, been their own worst enemy. I can't begin to detail the number of times I've seen the whole zine v. internet debate chewed over in a variety of locations and it never ends well. Like it or not, zines still for many fans have an elitist label stuck to them, based on a supposedly superior quality of fic which hasn't always been the case. Anyone who's been around in fandom for a while will be able to attest to the fact that we have some champion grudge carriers around here. ;)

I think the face of fandom as a whole is changing too. Very few fans seem to be single fandom any more - I remember when I first started attending cons, Sentinel was the fandom that seemed to be sweeping all before it, with more zines than every other fandom together (or so it seemed) and room for not just genre zines but also *sub*-genre zines (virgin!Blair zines being the first example that comes to mind). Where are all the Sentinel fans now? Single fandom fans seem to be much commoner in the older fandoms - I've come across quite a few in UNCLE and I believe it's also the case for fandoms like Pros and Starsky & Hutch.

I guess for me, the question is: what is it about zines that people can't get anywhere else? If it's about having fic in a handleable format, most people now have printers and access to alternative means of binding. For any but the old school fandoms, the chances of you getting fic there which doesn't eventually end up online is never going to be that good, so that's not as much of a pull. Particularly when we're talking about fandom as a whole being so much bigger *because* of the internet, mailing lists, livejournal communities. And certainly there hasn't always been a substantive difference in quality of what's being offered - the major difference at times has been more about presentation than content. And as the economic pressures bite, a fancy cover is going to be the least of people's worries.

Not sure what my conclusion is from all this - personally speaking, I like submitting stuff to zines but if I hadn't done that, I doubt I'd have bought all that many zines. Likewise, if I hadn't got into crossing the Atlantic for cons, I definitely wouldn't have bought many (any?) non-trib zines at $9 a pop shipping, besides which I like to see what I'm getting for my money. While I bless the invention of Paypal for getting money to people overseas, there's lots of competition for my attention and my wallet, so what makes zines so special?

*waits for the rocks* ;)

Comments

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Even still, I have very few. My tastes are so specific, I only buy what I like. (Or trib to what I like) And it seems I like very little. Like Sockii I'm really more interested in a very few very obscure fandoms, and in a couple fandoms It's just me and maybe one other person writing.

I think those of us who have obscure fandom loves (Wild Wild West, anyone? I think I'm the only non-American who's ever written anything in that fandom!) may have some different feelings about the whole issue anyway. If there were zines in your fandom of choice, the one where it's you and two other people and a dog, you'd probably buy it because it existed. ;)

I'm also very steady in my fandoms. I like the same shows I always have, I'm in no way a butterfly. I also don't follow writers from one fandom to another.

Have to say, I don't get the whole New Shiny phenomenon either. There are fandoms I like and fandoms I love - I can't imagine, for example, being in a position to ever not love UNCLE since I've been a fan since almost before I can remember. Discovering there was such a thing as fandom was a revelation. If writers I like move into fandoms I like (or want to consider, since this is how I got into WWW) then fine, but I can't imagine reading fic by an author I like in a fandom I have no interest in.

Zines were necessary before the net. They are much less so now.

They don't have the monopoly they used to have. Whether there's a niche for them still has yet to be determined.

I also feel there is an elitist element. "I was published in a zine" implies that not being published in a zine isn't as good. There's also people who look down upon net readers with the , "oh well, you just must not read everything." I see no reason to "read everything" thank you very much... There's also many old schoolers who think that zine = quality control. Boy do I have some examples to open their eyes with.

Both online fic and zine fic is a spectrum - anyone who thinks that all zine fic was brought down from the mountain on tablets of stone needs to seriously have their head examined. I read a lot of stuff online but I'm very picky about what I spend my time on, as I am with both zines and pro fic. Life is too short to read bad prose. ;)

However, I do contribute to zines. I enjoy working with an editor. I like seeing the end result.

Me too. I've particularly enjoyed working with Marian - I've learned a great deal from her input on my UNCLE and WWW fics.

But to be perfectly honest, I'd not miss 'em if they vanished.

As long as nobody raided my house and took my back issues, I might agree with you. ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

I think those of us who have obscure fandom loves (Wild Wild West, anyone? I think I'm the only non-American who's ever written anything in that fandom!) may have some different feelings about the whole issue anyway.

LOL and how many Americans are writing Sweeney? :P

If there were zines in your fandom of choice, the one where it's you and two other people and a dog, you'd probably buy it because it existed. ;)
But I'd have got a trib copy!!!

I can't imagine reading fic by an author I like in a fandom I have no interest in.

I can't either. My reading time is too valuable. If I want "literature" I'll pull out the Wodehouse or the Chaucer, and I don't do that very often I can tell you.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

LOL and how many Americans are writing Sweeney? :P

The uncharitable among us might say 'too many'! :P

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

pfft... and I got some small pops of interest from ship_manifesto so nyah!

:)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Jeez, it's not like you had to work too hard to convince people! :P

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHHAAAA no indeed not.

Scares the lads to death though. "NOT THEM TWO! They're hard!!!"

Heh, yes dear they are... for each other.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

It was a more innocent age. ;)