Degrees of dissonance

[graculus]

In the six or seven years I've been in fandom, I've read widely in a number of fandoms. I'm wondering if my tolerance levels are the same as they were, or whether it changes as new fandoms gain my interest, or is dependent on the fandom itself.

I've been reading a lot of Harry Potter fic recently. Some of it is excellent and some of it can only be described as god-awful. In essence, no better and no worse than any other fandom, as far as I can see. But where it differs in one respect is the couple of fics I've given up on early on because they just don't work - there's some fundamental flaw to the story premise that is only evident to me because I have a knowledge of the law and mores of the culture the stories are based in (not the wizarding world, of course, but mid-90's England).

So, I was wondering about this - I know there are people reading this entry that read in an equally wide variety of fandoms, or focus intently on one to the exclusion of all others, people with a wide variety of life experiences and areas of expertise. Can you get past a glaring error in something you have knowledge of and move on to read the rest of the story? Are you someone who, once they've started reading something, have to finish it? Or is it dependent on the quality of the tale, that if it's good enough then you can ignore something you know to be incorrect?

Inquiring minds and all that...

Comments

[pinkdormouse.livejournal.com]

Glaring errors can stop me reading, especially if they're central to the plot. Errors that throw me in an otherwise good story may inspire me to ask the author what they were thinking, when I give feedback.

But I don't feel obliged to finish reading anything. Except when it's short and I'm reading it as a favour for someone, like the beta-from-hell one of my friends was lumbered with. I read it all the way through just to prove that she was being a lot less harsh on the author than I would have been.

Gina

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

I used to be that way, particularly about novels, but as I've grown wiser older, I find I'm more picky. If there's something vital about the story I don't like, or that doesn't sit well, I close it.

A few examples?

Last night I was reading a CSI story, where the story did not state it was basically an AU. The author had Gil Grissom as a vampire, and that just rang so false with me, I closed it.

I read one SG-1 story where someone Daniel had met was somehow stranded offworld. While it was real written, my "suspension of disbelief" couldn't accept it and I closed the story.

Grammar isn't something I pay attention to too much unless it totally ruins the story's effect. Same with spelling. I'm more picky with bad writing, where the characters aren't reading true and there are huge issues with facts, etc.

[emony.livejournal.com]

If a story is good enough, I'd overlook some flaws, like maybe one or two glaring lapses in logic (ie. characters flying from Bulgaria to Scotland on broomsticks in half an hour) or even slightly dodgy characterisation, but it would bug me the entire rest of the way through the story. Like there's one HP story I've been reading which happened to include emails, and consequently email addresses, for the characters, who were, in this fic, an MP and a peer. The email addresses were obviously just made up, but it bugged me all the way through the fic that they weren't in the actual format that MPs and peers email addresses are in. It's incredibly petty and totally irrelevant to the story as a whole, but it was there at the back of my mind for the entire rest of the fic. For all I know, it was a deliberate choice by the author not to use the real format for parliamentary emails, but it sort of felt more like a casse of slacking a bit on the research, and if she slacked there how do I know she didn't slack elsewhere. It puts doubt into your mind, and then the fic just loses something, because if the author doesn't care enough to do her research, why should I care when I'm reading it? If that makes sense.

Bad characterisation and impossible scenarios will throw me out of a fic immediately too. I'm very fussy these days, actually. I barely read anything. It's sad.

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

Er, "real written" should be "well written." I haven't finished my first cup of tea yet. Blah.

[thefannishwaldo.livejournal.com]

For me it depends on how dependant the story is on that erronious premise.

If it's a passing mention of something that's wrong, I can let it go. If the whole story is built on a faulty premise, then I can't read the story.

For example, in the Stargate episode "1969", they show the Sears Tower as they supposedly pass through Chicago. The Sears Tower wasn't built in 1969. But it's a minor thing and doesn't detract from the absolute cracktasticness of that episode. If the whole episode had been based on something about the Sears Tower in 1969, I might have had a bigger issue with it.

As for "having" to finish something once I've started it... I used to be that way in all fandoms. I kept hoping that *maybe* it would get better. Then I got into heavily fic'ed fandoms like Stargate and I realized 'life's too short to read bad fic.'

Now I'm trying to find stuff in an almost non-existant fandom, so just to have *something* to read, I'm slogging through some truly horrific stuff.

[innocent-lex.livejournal.com]

I finally read the Da Vinci Code because of all the raving, and I apparently had the time to waste. While I was running through it hoping to get to the good bit (with all that praise, there should have been a good bit, right?) I hit the part where cardboard bloke character is in a London park looking at a London landmark. Sad thing is, you can't see said landmark from said park because there are all these buildings in the way. I dunno, maybe said cardboard bloke character had x-ray vision. If the only bits of the book I could speak to were complete nonsense, that really didn't say much about the rest of it. But hey, it's Dan Brown's alternate universe - he can write whatever the heck he likes.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

For me it depends on the quality of the story, how engrossed I am, and what kind of glaring error it is - different people will have different levels of 'glaring'. I've read a fair few stories with errors in them that have made me blink and think 'oh, yeh'? but generally if it's a one off thing and I'm already gripped, I tend to let it go. I've also come across things that I might perceive as an error, but that I'm well aware may not be an error in the country in which the story is set. So unless I really want to stop my reading to research this, I tend to let that go and make a mental note to check it, should it really bother me.

I can't honestly think of any error I've come across that has actually stopped me, or would actually stop me reading a story once I'd started. I tend to be extremely tolerant, more than a lot of people. However, if the error was something really fundamental that was easy to check out (after all something that I might consider glaring, because it's within my sphere of knowledge, might not be that easy to check out, okay I know, so why use it then, but....) then I might be leery about reading something else by said author.

I pretty much tend to finish something once I've started it. There's only one squick I have that will make me put down the story/novel and not pick it up again.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

The story that most recently had this effect on me had what appeared to be a casual lack of interest in the accuracy of how it would be possible for this particular character to have this particular situation come about. Perhaps it was a case of the plot device being too blatant for me to suspend my disbelief?

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Last night I was reading a CSI story, where the story did not state it was basically an AU. The author had Gil Grissom as a vampire, and that just rang so false with me, I closed it.

So was it the lack of warning or the premise itself that was the bigger problem?

Grammar isn't something I pay attention to too much unless it totally ruins the story's effect. Same with spelling. I'm more picky with bad writing, where the characters aren't reading true and there are huge issues with facts, etc.

I tend to think that if someone apparently can't be bothered to even spell-check their fic (and worse, if there are blatant errors in the summary) then the chances of it being worth the effort aren't all that good... ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

e exclusion of all others, people with a wide variety of life experiences and areas of expertise. Can you get past a glaring error in something you have knowledge of and move on to read the rest of the story? Are you someone who, once they've started reading something, have to finish it?

No...

Honestly... I expect a certain amount of basic research. Something that glaring says to me that if not enough care was taken with a big detail, then the rest is suspect. Sometime's I'll continue if the story is otherwise interesting, but my experience has shown that it's generally not worth continuing.

And Lord no, I feel absolutely no compunction to finish stories. I'm not a martyr... that's katyabaturinsky's job :P

[graculus.livejournal.com]

It's incredibly petty and totally irrelevant to the story as a whole, but it was there at the back of my mind for the entire rest of the fic.

I think for me, my ability to immerse myself into a story is inverse proportion to how much it looks like the writer has at least tried to get all their ducks in a row. In the case of your example, why on earth would anyone not at least make an effort? Out of curiosity I went looking for the right email address format for MPs and it took me less than 5 minutes on Google to figure it out.

It puts doubt into your mind, and then the fic just loses something, because if the author doesn't care enough to do her research, why should I care when I'm reading it?

Makes perfect sense to me. So much so that if there are glaring spelling or grammar errors in the first couple of lines of a fic, then it shows that the writer can't be bothered to do their best by their story, so why should I give their fic the time when they obviously didn't? ;)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

If it's a passing mention of something that's wrong, I can let it go. If the whole story is built on a faulty premise, then I can't read the story.

I think people have different tolerance levels, though. I remember using this example at a panel once and getting a variety of responses: there's an AU Sentinel fic which had Blair Sandburg attending Oxford in the 19th century. The only problem being that since he's (even nominally) Jewish, he wouldn't have been able to do that - students at Oxford and Cambridge had to swear an oath of allegiance to the monarch as head of the Church of England, which of course Jews and Catholics wouldn't have been able to do...

Now I'm trying to find stuff in an almost non-existant fandom, so just to have *something* to read, I'm slogging through some truly horrific stuff.

So it's worth the pain to get something? ;)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I tend to get more vexed if there's stupid mistakes like that in stuff people have recced, because I expect more, I guess. I mean, if it's obvious to me then how many other people is it obvious to?

This also makes me research stuff for my own stories because I don't want anyone mocking me, even if I don't know about it, for doing a Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (Dover to Nottingham in double-quick time via Hadrian's Wall). ;)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I've read a fair few stories with errors in them that have made me blink and think 'oh, yeh'? but generally if it's a one off thing and I'm already gripped, I tend to let it go.

Do you think this has an effect on what you write yourself and how hard you try to make sure things are 'right'?

I pretty much tend to finish something once I've started it.

I just don't think I have that kind of stamina...

There's only one squick I have that will make me put down the story/novel and not pick it up again.

Now you know I'm going to have to ask... ;)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

And Lord no, I feel absolutely no compunction to finish stories. I'm not a martyr... that's katyabaturinsky's job :P

And she does it so well! :P

[pinkdormouse.livejournal.com]

But story research is fun... Gina

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, this is not a universally-held opinion... ;)

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

So was it the lack of warning or the premise itself that was the bigger problem?

Premise, definitely. There are fantastical things I can excuse in Stargate because it's science fiction - if you can do it well, go for it. But for things like CSI, which is "real world based" (well, iffy on that:)), there are things that just don't read well, imo. Having a main character as a vampire, no. Having the main characters investigate a real vampire? More plausible. :)

I tend to think that if someone apparently can't be bothered to even spell-check their fic (and worse, if there are blatant errors in the summary) then the chances of it being worth the effort aren't all that good... ;)

True, sometimes you can judge a book by its cover. :) I'm thinking more the stories that I go through, oh, the first few paragraphs.

[mer1973.livejournal.com]

Are ya'll talking about the katyabaturinsky I know? Because, most martyr's suffer in silence, and Katya? Silent? Not so much.

[shinymarigold.livejournal.com]

Can you get past a glaring error in something you have knowledge of and move on to read the rest of the story?

Depends on whether or not it's a passing thing or a major plot point. I slogged through two or three books in a pro series because they were fast reads and I could overlook the bad GSP (which I think in a pro novel just should not be there), but when a major revelation in one book depended on what I felt to be a faulty understanding of paleoanthropology, I just stopped reading. I don't feel obligated to finish anything if I don't like it--I don't have that kind of time.

I like it when a writer does the research. Even if he/she never uses the actual facts, having the knowledge will inform the rest of the work. Then again, I'm very lazy, and I don't necessarily practice what I preach. 8-)

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Martyr, masochist, either works. ;)

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

So it's worth the pain to get something? ;)

Lord no!!! Never!!!

[graculus.livejournal.com]

There are fantastical things I can excuse in Stargate because it's science fiction - if you can do it well, go for it. But for things like CSI, which is "real world based" (well, iffy on that:)), there are things that just don't read well, imo.

So, it's fandom-dependant? I can see how this would be more of a stretch than in some other fandoms, but then I'm also loosely involved with Mag7 fandom where there are a shedload of bizarrely-premised universes vying for attention...

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

masochist then!

hee... I actually meant Martyr to the Cause :P

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

Fandom-dependant may indeed be it. I guess different shows has their own rules that seem, at least imo, inviolable without become totally AU... or something like that. And I guess it depends on the person, too? Meh. Not feeling too verbose today, I guess.